INT: So dad, you were talking about on THE WAY WEST, how the studio liked the film, but when they saw it… 

AM: So anyway, when I showed the picture to United Artists, I remember at Goldwyn Studio [Samuel Goldwyn Studio], they really liked the movie, and I thought, "Oh well that’s great, because it’s my cut, and the Producer had okayed it, and everything." But fade out, fade out, I was working at another studio, and I got a call one day, from the president, or one of the president, or vice president of the producing company of THE WAY WEST. He said, “I beg of you, to cut the first 22 minutes off the beginning of the picture.” The way he asked me, he said, “I beg of you.” I said, “How can you do that when you don’t, people, it has to be, you have to get to know people, and where they came from, and why are they in the movie.” He said, “Well, we put, we’ve just released the picture in Hawaii, and we had to pull it back in, it’s costing us a whole bunch of money, so we’ve decided to just cut 22 minutes, 22 minutes off the front of your movie.” [INT: Well that doesn’t, I’m not clear. So the movie that they were talking about before, they had to pull it, why did they have to pull it?] Because it was, the picture was too long, and they thought it was too long, and they just decided to cut it. [INT: So did they end up cutting the 20 minutes out of your film?] I worked all day long on one movie, and went to the studio to meet the Producer, and we tried to take a foot here, and a foot here, and tried to go along with what the studio wanted. I mean, they had the final say. And you know, it hurt the movie. I always thought it hurt the movie. [INT: How many minutes were you able to cut out, did you actually…] Well we didn’t cut out 22, but it really hurt the very fact that somebody asked us to do it. [INT: I don’t blame you, that’s a tough one.]

INT: Have you produced any of the movies that you’ve directed? 

AM: Yeah, I produced the little movies. I produced the little movies that I did before MCLINTOCK!. And then I produced the first movie I directed, or the second movie, and the second movie I directed. I produced it along with Bob Morrison, Duke’s [John Wayne] brother. And then in FOOL'S PARADE, another picture I made with James Stewart, I was the Producer, as well as the Director. [INT: How did that affect… did that make any difference to how you approached things?] It was fine with me. I had no problems. I had my favorite Writer, James Lee Barrett on, it’s a good story of how, how it can work for a Director. Jimmy Stewart called me up again, said, “I found this novel, it’s terrific, if you can put it together.” So I went to Columbia and made a deal right away at Columbia [Columbia Pictures], and we made a very, very exciting movie. [INT: Well that’s fantastic, because that way you had full control of pretty much everything, right?] Right. [INT: Well that’s good.]

INT: What’s your experience on editing, or the post production phase, of a feature versus television, for example. What’s your involvement in the editing process? 

AM: Well the editing process is that TV editing is a lot faster. You have to, you’re going against some showing dates, and it just has to, everything is faster, everything is faster in TV. And now, and now, Mary, in this whole thing of cutting is not what it used to be. You know it used to be in a Moviola, and the Director would go with the Editor, and now it’s all on tape. And you see the close-ups, and the overs, da da da, and you point to them, and you cut them in. And you don’t have to labor through the Moviola, and it’s a whole new world. [INT: Do you think it’s a better world, now that you can see it?] No, I don’t think, I think it’s a better world. I think anybody will agree with you, it’s a better world. [INT: Right. It’s a lot quicker, for sure.]

INT: And, what about music on a film, how do you deal with that? Was there a composer that you…? AM: Good question. I had a composer that I used on the very first movie that I did, MAN IN THE VAULT. I don’t know how I met him, but he was from, I think he was from Hungary. And he did a good job when I did FOOL'S PARADE, he did that movie for me at Columbia [Columbia Pictures]. And yes, I feel that music’s very, very important. And always had a say as to what the music direction might be.

INT: When you’re doing your homework, and you were talking about how you sort of go through the dialogue and decide how you wanna break down the scene, tell me about, when you get to the set the next day and you block the scene. 

AM: Well, when you talk about blocking, I deal in a great deal, starting off with a master of what the scene is, the entire scene. And then you have to think to yourself, what, where are the important moves from one Actor to the other, to, from one place to the other. To whatever he’s doing, the scene, that might be apart from the rest of the cast. And all that has to be done, and you think to yourself, well I’ll get a two shot there, I’ll get a cross angle over here, and probably close-ups on the important dialogue. And overall, that’s what it amounts to. I mean it becomes very much second nature. [INT: When do you decide to use a tracking shot, for example?] Tracking shot is a very, very good question. Sometimes I’ve used it instead of people just sitting and talking or something, it might, may be a lot more interesting, if they’re walking down a path with the same dialogue. It depends on the story. You know, everything depends on the story. And, and you’re interpreting the script. [INT: Right.]

INT: Do you have a favorite movie that you worked on, dad? 

AM: Yes, I do, but… I have, I probably, my favorite movie I think is SHENANDOAH. [INT: Why?] Just the whole movie itself. I’ve got another favorite movie, FOOL'S PARADE. I have two or three favorite movies, not just one. Another one is THE WILD GEESE, and that’s a whole different genre, that’s a whole different thing, one that’s a big action, war movie. The other is a mystery movie, FOOL'S PARADE.] SHENANDOAH is my favorite movie because, number one the subject matter, number two a terrific script, and equally number three, I had a great cast. And it all added up to a, I thought a really, really good, I was very proud of that movie. I always thought that Jimmy Stewart should’ve been nominated for an Academy Award. [INT: Was it fun to make that movie?] It was fun to make it. All the young people. It’s about a father and his son. And a daughter. [INT: It’s one of my favorite movies too, dad. What was your least favorite movie?] Oh boy, oh boy. You know what, I’m not gonna even tell you what… I haven’t got, I’m not gonna tell you what that one is. I don’t wanna hurt anybody’s feelings. [INT: Okay, fair enough.]

INT: What do you like most about directing films? 

AM: I just like the, the old feeling of accomplishment. Of, when you see a film and, you go to the movie theater and it says by me, or any Director, that’s a feeling of accomplishment that you’ve directed that movie. [INT: But is it about collaboration, when you’re making the movie, is it the creative process of telling a story?] Look, let me put it this way. A Director doesn’t… movies aren’t made just by a Director. Movies have a whole lot of important people working on them: Cameraman, Art Director, we all know that. However, of all the people, the Director’s the boss. So you know, he’s, you know, I’m sure that some Directors think of a movie, that’s my movie, and other Directors might say, “No, that’s my movie, but by golly, a lot of people helped me make that movie.” [INT: Right.]

INT: Did they used to have test screenings on your films? [AM: Yeah.] To see what the response was, and then you’d make some changes based on that test screening? 

AM: Yeah, we did, we had those. We had those; they’re interesting. Then after the screenings, they’d make their notes. We responded sometimes, because they were good notes. [INT: So you took the notes that you thought were worthwhile.] Yeah, I mean, we… those notes can be very helpful sometimes. Actually, you asked me a question, and I can answer, from my heart. One of my favorite movies that I happened to be involved in was FOOL'S PARADE. FOOL'S PARADE with Jimmy Stewart [James Stewart], George Kennedy, Kurt Russell, Strother Martin, Anne Baxter. I thought was a superior movie. Not just cause I did it, but because of Jimmy Barrett’s [James Lee Barrett ] screenplay, the novel by Davis Grubb. I just thought… and we went to a tremendous opening in Atlanta, Georgia. And we had great response, and we thought we were gonna have a tremendous box office hit. Well instead of that, you know, it’s nobody’s fault because they go by previous experience. They sent us out into the wilderness, into the drive-ins of Texas. And it wasn’t that kind of a movie. It was a very personal kind of a movie. It was a mystery kind of a personal mystery, a little bit of adventure, and it would’ve done a lot better if they had put it in a smaller theater, and let the audience grow, and, I thought it was really wasted sending it to the drive-ins. [INT: Wow. I would agree with you on that one, but…]

INT: You know, when you take your film, and it’s gonna be shown on television, they have the what they call panning and scanning, and all of that. Are you involved with that process of the panning and scanning? 

AM: I’ve had a lot of movies that panned and scanned, including MCLINTOCK!, which I think can hurt. The reason is, that sometimes the, if you’re dealing with big wide screen TV, the only way they’re gonna get the scene right is to pan and scan it. And to me, I’ve seen a movie, I can’t be, I can’t tell you exactly which one of mine, but I’ve seen a couple of mine that have been ruined with the pan and scanning. [INT: Right. That’s right.]

INT: What year did you first join the DGA [Directors Guild of America] dad? 

AM: I joined the DGA, I’m pretty sure it was in the latter part of ’47 [1947], or ’48, or 1948. And that’s a couple of years ago. [INT: And it was as a Second AD [Second Assistant Director], that you joined?] Second AD. [INT: Was it on a particular movie, or was it just in general that you were a member?] No, I, no. I joined the AD as soon as I told them I’d done six, Second Assistant, before I got another assignment I was a DGA member. [INT: Did someone have to sponsor you in those days?] Nope. [INT: Or sign your application?] Not when I, my application was six, six movies as a Second, I didn’t need any sponsorship. [INT: And no one had to sign your application form?] No, I’ll tell you an interesting story, DGA-wise, that when I went to the University of Virginia, I was a freshman, and Robert Aldrich was a senior. Well Bob Aldrich, and I came out, and the war [World War II] started, and because of my height and everything, I couldn’t get in the Army. So I did four years in an airplane factory. And I don’t know what Bob’s reason was, but he didn’t have to go to the Army. He went right into the motion picture business. And I didn’t know when I was with him at the University of Virginia, but he was a senior I was a freshman, I didn’t know that he was gonna be even part of the business. But the strangest thing, that during that four years, he became a First Assistant. And when I sent in that letter about being a Second, he was already head of the council of the Assistant Directors [AD/UPM Council]. [INT: Do you think that helped you get in?] No, but while he… no, the bylaws took care of that. But that’s just the, just a little aside of somebody that I’ve been to school with.

INT: Do you remember any notable Directors who were active in the Guild [Directors Guild of America] at the time that you joined? 

AM: Well George Stevens, you know was always very active in the Guild. In actual fact John Ford was more active in the Guild than you think about. Oh my goodness. Lesley Selander was a very good friend of mine; I worked with him as a Second [Second Assistant Director], as a First [First Assistant Director]. [INT: Were they involved with the Guild?] Oh he was the treasurer of the Guild at one point, Lesley Selander. There’s a lot of… right now my memory isn’t just sharpening up on a whole bunch of names, but I’ve had a lot of good friends. You know, I’m, I’ve been… and the proudest thing is, that I have three members of my family: my son, my daughter, and my niece. All, my son’s a First Assistant, my daughter is a Production Manager, member of the Guild, but she’s now an Executive Producer, and my… [INT: Gwyneth.] And Gwyneth Horder [Gwyneth Horder-Payton], who has now turned a Director, and has done now about 20 TV shows, started off on THE SHIELD, so. But anyway, I’ve got all these people that are DGA members, and I’m also proud of the fact that I’ve been a member for 62 years. That’s a lot of years. And you’re asking me a lot of questions that, that do go back, especially when you’re 89 years old.

INT: So let me ask you dad, has the Guild ever had to fight a battle, or file an arbitration on your behalf, with regard to anything creative, on any of these films? Or any other type of dispute for you? 

AM: I’m trying to think of what movies that might have been on. I don’t think so. I don’t think so, I don’t think so. It might’ve been on pictures I made for Euan Lloyd. That might’ve been a little bit of an arbitration in WILD GEESE [THE WILD GEESE] and THE SEA WOLVES, but nothing to speak of. The worst one is when they called me in the Philippines, and told me that I might have to get off the movie. [INT: Right. Well, that was just for the Producer’s sake to join the Guild I think. That was to protect you, in the end, wasn’t it?] Right.

INT: Dad, how would a young Director benefit by joining the Directors Guild? 

AM: Oh, being a member of the Directors Guild is a, well I think it’s an honor, but anyway. They protect all your creative rights. And it’s just wonderful to have a Guild that does that the way they do it. And you know, Directors should be thankful for that all the time that they’re operating, because all it can do is help them in their work, in their thinking. Plus the fact they got great insurance for all members, and it’s… [INT: What about, they protect your minimum amount of time in your Director’s cut.] This is all the creative things that they deal with about your editing time. There isn’t anything they don’t really touch on. I mean they, they touch on all the things that they claim is gonna help the Director accomplish what he’s doing.

INT: Tell me dad, what do you think makes a good Director? 

AM: Well, Mary, you know, that’s a hard question. But my idea, my feeling is, that a good Director knows what he wants. He knows what he wants. And an extra good Director knows when he’s got it. And that’s a good Director. And that I think is a very important. It’s just like coming on the set for an 8 o’ clock shooting call, and the Director walks around, looking for his first set up before noon. And sometimes it’s happened, I’ll tell you right now. I know guys that have done that. [INT: Done what?] Walked around until noon until they get a set up. And that was the way I was brought up. All my people that I worked with, with John Ford, and Wellman [William A. Wellman]. They didn’t do that. They came to work with an 8 o’ clock shooting call, they came to work with an 8 o’ clock shooting call, and I have to tell you, that Bill Wellman would start shooting at 8:15. And usually get through by five. And that is what you call a well-prepared Director. And that’s, I always felt like I was very well prepared. [INT: ‘Cause you did your homework at night, probably, right?] Well, I did my homework, but it wasn’t something that, it came natural to me. What you find out, in directing movies, I don’t care if they’re TV or big screen, is the more experience you’ve had, the more experience you’ve had saying action, and cut, and sending a film through a camera, the more you’re gonna learn. And you’ll do a lot of little things and habits that you can pick up. And it has to do with scheduling, or finishing on schedule. You’ll get it done. [INT: You mean you learned some tricks of the trade, in order to, if you’re running behind schedule, you know how to cover a scene differently?] I’ve had to do that, I’ve had to… I mean I’ve had all kinds of experiences like that. Where I had to pick up time, and you get together with the cameraman, he can usually help you there. And, then it gets kind of a threat. I mean, you gotta do it, you gotta do it. And at the same time, without the expense of hurting the film, you don’t ever wanna hurt a film.

INT: Would your Writer be on the set to help you rewrite a scene if you had to do that on the fly? 

AM: Well, that’s a good question. Yeah, I have. I have, I have had that happen. And usually with a Writer like I know, with Jimmy Barrett [James Lee Barrett], and then, and he was a feisty son of a gun, so he’d probably give me a pretty good fight about it. [INT: But if a scene wasn’t working, it wasn’t working, and you had to rewrite it on the set, why…] Well, I mean, had to write it on the set, and we did it right on the set. But the funny, I’ll give you a funny quick, I’ll make it quick. I was doing a picture [SOMETHING BIG] with Dean Martin, and Honor Blackman, English Actors in Mexico, and I woke up one morning and realized that I needed a scene. I needed a scene, I needed it that day, and I got up at 4 o’ clock in the morning, and I wrote a scene, for Dean and Honor. And that day, I went and I shot it, shot it, and now when I go to look at the, he comes down the end of the week to see what we’re doing, my Writer, and we’re in there looking at the film, and I’m coming up to that scene, I’m thinking oh, here it goes, looking over at him. Looking at him to see what his reaction is. And here it comes and it’s playing, and I’ve got a smile on my face, enjoying it. And I look over, and he’s got a smile on his face. And he said, “Boy that really works great, doesn’t it?” And he thought he’d written it. [INT: That’s a good story. That’s funny dad.]

INT: When you were working your way up in the industry, do you feel like that made you a better Director, because you worked from working as a Second [Second Assistant Director], and then a First [First Assistant Director], you really saw the workings of a set were. Do you think that made you a better Director? 

AM: For me, I think it makes me a lot better Director. Having been through, I started at the bottom, I’m proud of the fact that I started at the bottom. I didn’t start… I wasn’t an Editor that became a Director. I wasn’t a Writer that became a Director. I was a production guy. I was a production worker that became a Director. And that is probably the least, that happens the least number of times in today’s world. Most Directors come from the writing end of the business, or the editing. There are not too many Assistant Directors that become Directors. [INT: That’s true.] And I can tell you right now, that my son [Josh McLaglen] is, I consider my son a really big, big, good First Assistant Director. And he’s ready, he’s so ready to be a Director, it’s not even funny. Whether he ever gets the chance to or not, is another thing. But when he gets the chance, I know he’s gonna be a success. And you asked me a question. Does working up help? It works, it helps plenty. I think that if you know the ins and outs of production, and what it takes to be behind the scenes, and scheduling, and everything that goes with making a movie, you’re gonna be a better Director if you’ve had that experience.

INT: Tell me about some challenges you’ve had on any of the films. What are some of the biggest challenges you’ve had when you’ve been directing a film? Anything that comes to mind that you remember being sort of challenging? 

AM: I would say Mary, that over the years, 30 years or whatever it is, I’ve had a lot of challenges that you try to beat. I mean whether it’s weather, that you’re trying to beat weather, in a scene. You’re trying to get a scene done. You’re gonna move the scene inside instead of playing it outside, especially if it’s raining, and time is going by, you can move that entire scene inside, into a covered set. There’s so many, challenges like that are just commonplace, that any Director with some knowledge is not gonna be surprised at, you know, and will be able to do it. [INT: You learned to punt, in other words?] Yeah, yeah. That’s right. [INT: How do you decide dad, when you’re looking at your script, whether or not you’re actually gonna build a set, or whether you shoot practical…] Well, it’s part of the operation. It’s just part of the operation on a movie. I mean, you’re either gonna be on location and you need some beautiful scenery, or you’re gonna be on location and not have a lot of scenery, but you’re on location. And… [INT: I’m not sure what that just meant.] Well it means you wanna, if you’re gonna go away on location, take advantage of your location. The way you take, you go to your location because it is the right locale for what you’re doing. And therefore, the background and all the thing that goes with it, whether it’s animals, or sheep, or cattle, or people, you know, if it’s gonna be there, it’s gonna be there. And you better use it. Otherwise you’re just wasting your time going on location.

INT: Did you use to use mat paintings, or did you use green screen, or blue screen? 

AM: I think mat paintings are some of the, is the best trickery that we have in movies. And I had one of the greatest from Universal [Universal Pictures]. And believe me, and this minute I cannot think of his name. But he was the best, and when I went to do THE WAY WEST in Oregon, and I had covered wagons going along, just an ordinary trail, and he put in the backgrounds, of the most gorgeous, of mountains, and hills, and sky, and boats going up a river, I mean it just, absolutely take your breath away on a mat, that you couldn’t get otherwise. [INT: Unless you went on the location…] And people have to understand, that it’s not cheap to do mats, but it’s cheaper than sometimes going to the location. [INT: Right.]

INT: --Young person, if they wanna, you know, become a Director. (Advice for young filmmakers). 

AM: Well… boy that’s a good question, Mary. I’ll tell you what. I would suggest that they find a project that’s important. Find a project, find a subject matter, find a story. If it isn’t in a script, put it into a script form. Or at least some sort of form, and then have it come out the way you want it as a movie script. And then, nothing better as far as, for a young person, is if he ever gets the chance, is practical experience. To me, all of, all schooling that you can pay to go to these days, you know big film schools, at the big colleges, nothing compares to what I feel I went through with practical experience. And I feel that I learned a lot, and it all paid off for me when I became a Director.

INT: What made you decide to do certain films dad? If the film wasn’t one of these situations where it was handed to you by Jimmy Stewart, and people gave you a script, did you just direct any script that was given to you? Or did you pick and choose what scripts you chose to do? 

AM: No listen, it depends on what kind of a Director you are. If you’re a very well known Director, you can do a lot of choosing. If you’re just a Director, and you don’t have any hit pictures to your credit, if you’re a journeyman, you know, you’re a working, you wanna be a working Director, and your Agent comes to you with a movie, so you do it. [INT: So that’s the kind of Director you were, you used to just take whatever script, and go for it, or would you choose whatever script?] No, no, I think I was lucky enough to be just a little bit beyond that, in that I began to get a good reputation for certain kinds of movies. [INT: So do you ever feel like you were pigeon holed in a certain genre?] I thought that a lot of people, even today think of me as a Western Director. [INT: Or an action Director maybe.] Or an action Director, I think they think of me in that. And that’s the reason I like to go back, one of my movies FOOL'S PARADE, which was not an action movie. It was a drama movie.

INT: Is that, how did that make you feel, knowing that you were pigeon holed as an action Director? And once you become “pigeon holed”, it’s hard to break that barrier isn’t it, and to try other genres. 

AM: Well not is it tough, but I have to tell you something. The best Directors of all time, in my book, is John Ford. And John Ford, by some people, they think of him only as a Western Director. Why? FORT APACHE, SHE WORE A YELLOW RIBBON, and RIO GRANDE, they did the three cavalry pictures in a row, with gorgeous scenery, down in Monument Valley, and they think of John Ford, and they forget about all the other pictures… HOW GREEN IS MY VALLEY, LONG VOYAGE HOME. THE INFORMER, THE LOST PATROL, WEE WILLY WINKIE, all these other great pictures that he’s done, I mean, unbelievable. Well he had four Academy Awards, John Ford. [INT: So, is it hard to break the barrier, once you get pigeon holed, unfortunately?] I would say very hard. [INT: You have to fight twice as hard.] But that’s one of the things that can happen to you. If you’re an “action man”, or a “Western man”, that sometimes sticks with you for the rest of your life. And you know, I’ve been able to get… you know I’ve done some war pictures. I’ve done, well, different kinds of films, even though people still might think of me as an action Director, I just feel myself, I’m a Director. [INT: Well let me ask you this then. Do you, the only person who can break that barrier would have been you, actually, because it would have been a matter of working or not working, I suppose, picking and choosing, right?] Well it’s what is offered to you, and what isn’t offered to you. And if I don’t get the kind of pictures that people think that I’m good at offered to me, I might not, if I don’t wanna do it, I won’t be working. And so, you know, and a lot of the times, that, I’m sure that happened in my career. [INT: And why do you think you were pigeon holed as an action Director, because you did more Westerns than not? How did they think of you as that in the first place?] Well, when people go around and they talk about it now, "Andrew has done 95 GUNSMOKES, and 116 HAVE GUN - WILL TRAVELS, and RAWHIDE, those are all Westerns." And if you’re not considered a Western Director, I don’t know what you were doing. But even though I did them, I didn’t consider myself a Western Director, because I knew that I was capable of doing other things, which I was lucky enough to be able to do, as I broke into big films. I get away from the Western. All my films aren’t Westerns. [INT: Right.]

INT: Dad, it seems to me that a good portion of your career was based, developed from your friendships that you’ve made, and relationships that you made as a young man, I mean… 

AM: Well, I think you’re probably right, Mary. I mean, I could’ve been an Editor, I could’ve been a Writer, I could’ve had done both of those jobs, or one of them, and still have wanted to have been a Director, and never been a Director. And the only thing, when you say relationships, yes I worked with Duke [John Wayne], and I worked with him a lot, over a period of almost a 10 year period, and during that time, he got to know me. And when he suggested that he would help me become a Director, I think he considered me as having, you know, the whereabouts and the know how to be a Director, you know. [INT: Was he, what quality in you do you think he saw?] Well, all I know is that I did five pictures with John Wayne; I never had any problems with him at all. [INT: Well that’s not the question, the question was what qualities did he see in you?] What qualities, the qualities that he saw was that I knew what I was doing. I knew what I was doing, he’d seen, I’m sure he must have seen some of those TV movies that I made. [INT: Had you made the TV movies when he agreed to do the Budd Boetticher script?] No. He didn’t know… Duke only knew me as a Second Assistant [Second Assistant Director] at Republic [Republic Pictures]. When I took him that script, he only knew me as a Second Assistant Director. [INT: And as grandfather’s [Victor McLeglen] son, perhaps that’s why he took the script from you, because…] Well no, because… Listen, I was working with him every day on the set. And in actual fact if the truth were known, over a period of years, I actually knew Duke more than my father did, I mean… [INT: What was the age difference between you two?] 13 years. [INT: He was your senior.] He was 13 years my senior, and my father was 21 years Duke’s senior. So you know, I just felt that he felt… and another thing, with Bob [Robert Morrison] as my partner, I felt that Duke thought that in doing me the favor, it’s also gonna help Bob. [INT: His brother.] His brother. And, who died way back in ’71 [1971] now, but anyway. It all worked out. And the one thing that I like to say about that little movie that I made, that 10 dayer, on Duke’s capital, is that to this day, they’re still getting residuals on it. Duke all the time he was living, and he’s been dead 30 years, he got residuals from that movie. So it wasn’t a bust. He got all his money back, and now the family’s getting a little here and there, since it showed on TCM [Turner Classic Movies] the other day. [INT: Did you get your Associate Producer credit on that?] No, ‘cause I directed it. GUN THE MAN DOWN. [INT: You were talking about BULLFIGHTER AND THE LADY.] Well BULLFIGHTER AND THE LADY did not get my credit, but I did get my job, and it got me established as a First Assistant [First Assistant Director]. And those are tough, those are tough things too. And it was even tougher in those days, because the boys were coming back from the Army, and they wanted their jobs back, and you don’t blame them for that. So you know, I was very happy to become a First.

INT: Did the Directors in those days get to choose their Firsts [First Assistant Directors], or were you assigned? Because you were under contract, were you assigned? 

AM: Well, when I was on contract to Duke [John Wayne], any picture made at Wayne/Fellows [Wayne/Fellows Productions], at that period, in the ’52 [1952] to ’53 [1953], to ’54 [1954] period, or, yeah, about three and a half, four years. I was automatically the First. [INT: So the Director really had no say, which is different than the way it works today.] Well, well I guess not, because in one of those cases John Farrow, John Farrow was the Director, and I was his… the Production Manager was busy, so I was the Production Manager. So that, and then the other pictures were all with Bill Wellman [William A. Wellman], and when you had Bill Wellman, you didn’t have a Producer hanging around all the time. It was a Wayne/Fellows production, you know. [INT: Let me ask you something. You were a First AD, how did you automatically get to work as a Production Manager. In today’s world, you actually have to have x amount of days before you can qualify as a Production Manager. Was it just something you could…] Well in those days, in those days, the regular Production Manager at Wayne/Fellows was busy preparing another movie, so they just said, "Well we’ll make you the Production Manager." [INT: Wasn’t there any Guild…] No, no, no, no. [INT: No Guild rules.] No. And as a matter of fact, for that one job, I don’t know if I ever, like when I moved up from first Assistant Director to Director, I think I paid a tremendous sum of 300 bucks or something like that. [INT: But when you were the Production Manager on that film, were you responsible for the budget.] I was the Production Manager. [INT: Were you responsible for the budget?] Yeah, I was production with the schedule, and everything. I was down in Durango, Mexico, with Duke and Geraldine Page, and… [INT: But I’m curious, as a Production Manager, the responsibilities--] Yeah, I was responsible for it, absolutely.

INT2: Well one thing, you were talking about relationships. As a Second AD [Second Assistant Director], you spend a lot of time with the Actors. I mean that job--[AM: Second AD, you’re giving them their calls.] Yeah, so you’re in their trailers a lot, you’re spending a lot of time with the Actors, so that’s, so I think that’s another way to talk about working your way up, you build relationships as a Second AD. And then it’s probably a better relationship than the First AD with Actors. 

AM: You’re right about that, because you make the call sheets. [INT2: Talk about that.] You make the call sheets, you get the First AD to sign them, but the Second AD usually gives the cast their crew calls, and the crew their calls. Keeps track of the production reports, and all that kind of stuff. [INT: But weren’t, did you spend more time with the Actors, just sort of as opposed to the First AD, who’s usually on the set with the Director, do you feel like that’s how you got to know--] Well you know something Mary, I’ve gotta tell you something. You’re dealing a lot here, you’re talking over 60 years ago when I was a Second AD. And I remember, I worked with Gene Autry, I worked with Dale Evans, and Roy Rogers, I mean and all those cowboy Actors that, you know, and I just, I got to know a whole bunch of Actors that way, in actual fact. I mean a Second to me is a very important job, and you have to do it properly, especially if you wanna be of help to the First AD. But in retrospect, and you’re talking about how I wanted to be a Director, when I was a Second AD, I wanted to be a First AD. And when I was a First AD, I couldn’t wait to be a Director. And that’s the way that worked. And it worked for me, and… [INT: I think you were fortunate that you got a lot of good breaks from people that believed in you. In other words, you had some serious people championing you.] I couldn’t agree more, I could not agree more. [INT: John Wayne being number one on the list.] However, you know, if I hadn’t have been able to do the job, I wouldn’t have been, done five pictures with Wayne, or four pictures with Jimmy Stewart, or two pictures with Richard Burton. [INT: I think I’m talking about back when you were starting, yeah.] Yeah, right.

INT2: If you had to do it all over again, would you do anything different? 

AM: If I had it to do all over again, I don’t think I’d do anything different at all. I can’t think of anything different at this point. I’m, as a matter of fact, I kind of, it’s sort of interesting me sitting here, telling my story, because I bet you that there aren’t too many, maybe there are, but there aren’t too many DGA members that are a member for 62 years. And you know, I was a member when I was 27, and I’m 89 now, so that’s a lot of, that’s quite a few years. I have a very good friend who’s 44 years old, who’s going to college in Iowa, learning all about film. Now, he’s gonna go and learn about writing scripts, he’s gonna learn about how you direct a movie, and how to produce a movie. And he’s 44 years old. Now, all I know is that, all of that, bunched together, will never give you the experience of doing the actual job. And I was lucky enough to be able to do all of what I did, actually working at the job. [INT: But not everyone’s as fortunate to have the breaks that you had. In other words, people have to work a lot harder today to try and get the breaks.] Yeah, well, I mean… Some people maybe hold that against me. Say, "He got all the breaks." Well, maybe I did get all the breaks, but if I didn’t perform, I wouldn’t have lasted. And as it was, I lasted from ’55 [1955] to ’90 [1990], which is a few years.